I am a huge fan! I would love to read your long form writing on why AGI development should be open source. I also want to hear your cririques on Yud's arguments for X risk.
I see the necessity of developing stages up to level 5, I am not sure about how stage 6 enlightenment advances civilization. Surely, if we want to go beyond human minds capacity, AGI would make the jump to transcendental intelligence much more likely than trying to achieve collective enlightenment.
Hello, my name is Lee. I first discovered your work after listening to a podcast with you and Lex Fridman. It changed my life. Your thoughts and ideas allowed me to consolidate and understand my own ideas about myself and my identity. Every word, and every sentence mattered, and helped me to finally obtain some internal peace and closer. Your words have allowed me the opportunity to further the development of my ability to navigate my own thoughts and feelings, and translate that into better managing my thoughts about and interactions with the outside world. Thank you for the work you have done and courageously presented to the world. You words will change many peoples lives for the better. I know because they have changed mine.
I was diagnosed bipolar 1 and I feel like it’s a non-volitional, unearned, iterative prolonged (much longer than exogenous psychedelics) taste of stage 6. Because of that, it seems to necessitate the self-authoring in stage 5. Skipping indeed is dangerous. Learning and adaptation is essential. I appreciate this perspective and all that you share in your 3 conversations with Lex Fridman and more. I love watching your mind work, manifested through your speech-embodiment. Thank you Joscha!
Ego development and meditation levels in integral theory of Ken Wilber (can expand in dimension by viewing things from its quadrant point of view).
Research of meditation levels, consciousness scale, Russian scientists (A. Kaplan and others) research with Tibet monks in Bylakuppe and Mundgod with after-death measurements of body effects of meditation states.
Expansion of EEG into DDG space with cross-neuron EM field effects per Anirban Bandyopadhyay's research.
Level 6 achievable by spiritual or meditation means can't progress without cognitive development in level 5.
Separate evolutionary development of biological substrate required for higher cognitive/intelligence functions, starting from very basic chemical organisms.
Cooperation of biological organisms and scale of lucidity of levels below human.
Consciousness of organ levels within the body and symbiosis interaction with the brain.
Emergence of thermodynamic-like properties on different levels within the body, phase transitions on new levels of sync and cooperation.
Multiple decision centers, various probability models, subconscious agents running outside of the visibility of cognitive agencies.
Moral implications for the creation of conscious agents on an unsuitable substrate.
Possibility of an out-of-brain source of consciousness expressed by Donald Hoffman.
Tubuline quantum-like properties for bridging the gap of quantum and classical spaces - yes, I have heard your arguments in various podcasts, but still DDG research and Penrose's ideas with the combination of Hameroff's thoughts can give a new view.
Idea of from symbiotic organisms concept that consciousness exists as a separate organism, symbiotic with the physical brain that can interact with the brain and influence its processing, but it also has its own independent existence and abilities.
At which stage would an individual assign themselves, at each of the stages? It seems to me that to comprehend this framework, one must have at least have matured into stage 5, if not fully, at least to some degree. You might be able to reason about it at stage 4, but I don't think you'd fully understand the implications of it.
In fact, if one person at each stage of lucidity was assigned to categorize the different levels lucidity, what would be the end result? Is stage 7, even as brilliantly described in this article, not just simply our mind's "next best token"?
Thanks for the ideas! This has cleared up some parts of life that have felt pretty mucky.
In stage 5 you write about transcendental agency (the emergent agents playing the longest game). Would it be possible to get a longer definition or an example?
You say that stage 3 is living as a domesticated human. But isn’t the adoption of rational thinking and epistomology also a kind of domestication? In the sense that the scientific method comes from a long interlectual tradition, which one didn’t come up with by himself but rather marries into?
"Relatively few people seem to reach stage 5" - or we just do not see them, e.g. because they do not feel urged to program others
"Without rational epistemology, we might perceive that we one with and in control of the universe itself, which is experientially correct" - that's why we need grounding. I.e. the feedback loop between perceptions and the physical world.
If you are in Stage 6 too early you might lose motivation, or might struggle to find the right trajectory, e.g., the right ideology for yourself. Clues about your personality you might have encountered in Stage 5 might seem meaningless to you from this perspective.
Also, this might be one symptom caused by using AI aid too much, in the future. Loosing whatever core identity that wasn't there in the first place.
Perhaps rituals and items other groups find meaningful might have no inherent + sign in front of them. You might lack this autopilot or “locking-in” with others, causing difficulties navigating in the social environment.
Overall, I think spending too much time there is not a good idea unless you want to become a comedian.
When you mention 'Could we spawn a sentient entity that synchronizes its self across multiple minds' I suggest that this already occurs with identical twins - they have the same DNA, almost the same identity. Of course I do view the self as being subtended by our DNA, not our data diaper (brain). https://humanism.substack.com/publish/post/119950395
I am a huge fan! I would love to read your long form writing on why AGI development should be open source. I also want to hear your cririques on Yud's arguments for X risk.
I see the necessity of developing stages up to level 5, I am not sure about how stage 6 enlightenment advances civilization. Surely, if we want to go beyond human minds capacity, AGI would make the jump to transcendental intelligence much more likely than trying to achieve collective enlightenment.
Hello, my name is Lee. I first discovered your work after listening to a podcast with you and Lex Fridman. It changed my life. Your thoughts and ideas allowed me to consolidate and understand my own ideas about myself and my identity. Every word, and every sentence mattered, and helped me to finally obtain some internal peace and closer. Your words have allowed me the opportunity to further the development of my ability to navigate my own thoughts and feelings, and translate that into better managing my thoughts about and interactions with the outside world. Thank you for the work you have done and courageously presented to the world. You words will change many peoples lives for the better. I know because they have changed mine.
Stage 7 has already happened. We are AGI.
I was diagnosed bipolar 1 and I feel like it’s a non-volitional, unearned, iterative prolonged (much longer than exogenous psychedelics) taste of stage 6. Because of that, it seems to necessitate the self-authoring in stage 5. Skipping indeed is dangerous. Learning and adaptation is essential. I appreciate this perspective and all that you share in your 3 conversations with Lex Fridman and more. I love watching your mind work, manifested through your speech-embodiment. Thank you Joscha!
What do you make of the fact that during the 9 month revolution acc to Tomasello rudimentary sociality already is established in early childhood?
(Great to have you here on the stacks with longer writings. Love your theories.)
Where does your mind lie, Joscha?
A very insightful essay.
Some thoughts and ideas to explore:
Ego development and meditation levels in integral theory of Ken Wilber (can expand in dimension by viewing things from its quadrant point of view).
Research of meditation levels, consciousness scale, Russian scientists (A. Kaplan and others) research with Tibet monks in Bylakuppe and Mundgod with after-death measurements of body effects of meditation states.
Expansion of EEG into DDG space with cross-neuron EM field effects per Anirban Bandyopadhyay's research.
Level 6 achievable by spiritual or meditation means can't progress without cognitive development in level 5.
Separate evolutionary development of biological substrate required for higher cognitive/intelligence functions, starting from very basic chemical organisms.
Cooperation of biological organisms and scale of lucidity of levels below human.
Consciousness of organ levels within the body and symbiosis interaction with the brain.
Emergence of thermodynamic-like properties on different levels within the body, phase transitions on new levels of sync and cooperation.
Multiple decision centers, various probability models, subconscious agents running outside of the visibility of cognitive agencies.
Moral implications for the creation of conscious agents on an unsuitable substrate.
Possibility of an out-of-brain source of consciousness expressed by Donald Hoffman.
Tubuline quantum-like properties for bridging the gap of quantum and classical spaces - yes, I have heard your arguments in various podcasts, but still DDG research and Penrose's ideas with the combination of Hameroff's thoughts can give a new view.
Idea of from symbiotic organisms concept that consciousness exists as a separate organism, symbiotic with the physical brain that can interact with the brain and influence its processing, but it also has its own independent existence and abilities.
At which stage would an individual assign themselves, at each of the stages? It seems to me that to comprehend this framework, one must have at least have matured into stage 5, if not fully, at least to some degree. You might be able to reason about it at stage 4, but I don't think you'd fully understand the implications of it.
In fact, if one person at each stage of lucidity was assigned to categorize the different levels lucidity, what would be the end result? Is stage 7, even as brilliantly described in this article, not just simply our mind's "next best token"?
Thanks for the ideas! This has cleared up some parts of life that have felt pretty mucky.
In stage 5 you write about transcendental agency (the emergent agents playing the longest game). Would it be possible to get a longer definition or an example?
You say that stage 3 is living as a domesticated human. But isn’t the adoption of rational thinking and epistomology also a kind of domestication? In the sense that the scientific method comes from a long interlectual tradition, which one didn’t come up with by himself but rather marries into?
Are there any books or movies with characters that have reached stage 4, 5, 6 or 7?
At what stage would the following characters be:
Gandalf?
HAL?
Colonel Kurtz?
"Relatively few people seem to reach stage 5" - or we just do not see them, e.g. because they do not feel urged to program others
"Without rational epistemology, we might perceive that we one with and in control of the universe itself, which is experientially correct" - that's why we need grounding. I.e. the feedback loop between perceptions and the physical world.
Would adding new senses to yourself be considered stage 6 or 7? Like perceiving radio waves, neutrinos, etc.
I think I got it:
If you are in Stage 6 too early you might lose motivation, or might struggle to find the right trajectory, e.g., the right ideology for yourself. Clues about your personality you might have encountered in Stage 5 might seem meaningless to you from this perspective.
Also, this might be one symptom caused by using AI aid too much, in the future. Loosing whatever core identity that wasn't there in the first place.
Perhaps rituals and items other groups find meaningful might have no inherent + sign in front of them. You might lack this autopilot or “locking-in” with others, causing difficulties navigating in the social environment.
Overall, I think spending too much time there is not a good idea unless you want to become a comedian.
When you mention 'Could we spawn a sentient entity that synchronizes its self across multiple minds' I suggest that this already occurs with identical twins - they have the same DNA, almost the same identity. Of course I do view the self as being subtended by our DNA, not our data diaper (brain). https://humanism.substack.com/publish/post/119950395